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REQ: Arkaein's 5-2 Defense
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Phate



Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Posts: 83
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:07 am    Post subject: REQ: Arkaein's 5-2 Defense Reply with quote

Ok, you all know how big of a fan I am as far as the 5-2 defensive scheme works. I've preached it in almost every defensive post I've made. Now I'm interested in Arkaein's ideas and thoughts for the 5-2. Please, oh mighty Madden Football God, create a 5-2 defense that I can use to make my enemies beg for mercy.

Oh, and could you include my Slant idea into it if you do? I kinda have a general idea how to do it in the playbook, but I gotta figure out how to get the linebackers to watch the guards. Maybe a QB Spy?


Thank you,
Phate
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Arkaein



Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:10 pm    Post subject: 5-2 defense Reply with quote

Phate, I have no idea when I'll get enough time to start working on an entirely new defense, but a 5-2 sounds like a neat project. You might have to wait until January though for it :-( Hopefully I'll get back to posting some new plays sometime pretty soon, but new formations always take a while. I have been working on a new defense that you might like in the meantime though, when I get around to developing it further.

Speaking of your slant idea, it sounds familiar, but could you add a link to it in this thread, so I can reference it?
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Phate



Joined: 16 Dec 2003
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Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: 5-2 defense Reply with quote

Arkaein wrote:
Speaking of your slant idea, it sounds familiar, but could you add a link to it in this thread, so I can reference it?


Here's an example against a Double Wing T:


The safties watch the tight ends and corners watch the halfbacks for pass plays.
The linebackers watch the guards. When the ball is snapped, the line slants and hits the guy to his left or right, depending on your slant. If the guards pull, the farthest linebacker hits the A Gap, and the closest linebacker hits the C gap. If they go into a pass block, the linebackers drop into passing coverage.

This play will stop virtually anything you throw at it. Even if the line slants the wrong way, the linebackers should be able to make the play.
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Arkaein



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:07 pm    Post subject: Okay Reply with quote

Looks solid, though like I said you might have to wait until January before I can develop and test anything like this. A 5-2 defense might be a nice addition to my playbook though.
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kingfeej



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a 5-2 MLB Blitz I created as my everydown D. It requires a bit of presnap motion but I once got 7 sacks with my MLB in one game on all-pro (AFC Championship Vs. Ravens). I love the 5-2.
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Phate



Joined: 16 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: Okay Reply with quote

Arkaein wrote:
Looks solid, though like I said you might have to wait until January before I can develop and test anything like this. A 5-2 defense might be a nice addition to my playbook though.


Maybe as a Christmas present? Razz
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Arkaein



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:01 pm    Post subject: LBs following guards Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh, and could you include my Slant idea into it if you do? I kinda have a general idea how to do it in the playbook, but I gotta figure out how to get the linebackers to watch the guards. Maybe a QB Spy?


This could be tricky, but the closest effect would probably be had by just puttin g the LBs in man coverage on the RBs. This won't always go with the guards, but it probably will on most running plays.

QB Spy might be better at keeping the middle coveraed on passing plays though, although I'd prefer a general hook zone for this purpose in most cases.
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Phate



Joined: 16 Dec 2003
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Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:00 am    Post subject: Re: LBs following guards Reply with quote

Arkaein wrote:
This could be tricky, but the closest effect would probably be had by just puttin g the LBs in man coverage on the RBs. This won't always go with the guards, but it probably will on most running plays.


That might actually be easier, since that way if the RB doesn't go with the guards the LBs will still be able to make the play.

Arkaein wrote:
QB Spy might be better at keeping the middle coveraed on passing plays though, although I'd prefer a general hook zone for this purpose in most cases.


True. Maybe you can split it into two plays so if they're a passing team we have it covered?
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cowboys3204



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:50 pm    Post subject: Issues Reply with quote

I like the thought of the 5-2, but there is one flaw. If the offense has a mobile QB (Mike Vick) and you try to blitz, all he has to do is zip one down field. Since you're blitzing, the DB's will be overworked trying to cover all the wide-outs. There is a better chance at a big play.
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Phate



Joined: 16 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:18 am    Post subject: Re: Issues Reply with quote

cowboys3204 wrote:
I like the thought of the 5-2, but there is one flaw. If the offense has a mobile QB (Mike Vick) and you try to blitz, all he has to do is zip one down field. Since you're blitzing, the DB's will be overworked trying to cover all the wide-outs. There is a better chance at a big play.


If there is going to be a passing play, the guards will be in a 2 point stance, or a 3 point and pass block.

The linebackers read the guards. Since the guards are in pass block, the linebackers react and go back into pass coverage.

This is why a QB Spy would work. If Vick tried to run, the linebackers would be on him like a cheap suite. They also have a good shot at making a big play if his play is a legit passing play.
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Arkaein



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the offense has a mobile QB (Mike Vick) and you try to blitz, all he has to do is zip one down field. Since you're blitzing, the DB's will be overworked trying to cover all the wide-outs. There is a better chance at a big play.


While this is probably a little more true for 5-2 than other defenses, the difference is not huge. It's a tradeoff: if you rush the entire front 5 on average it's like a moderate blitz on every play. However, there are a lot of other things you can do with a 5-2 , such as commit the LBs full time to the pass on many plays, and there are a lot more options for zone blitzes if you have some quick DEs.

Basically, a classic 5-2 is not much different than a 3-4. In a 3-4 the outside LBs are really like hybrid LBs/DEs, who spend a disproportionate amount of time blitzing. A 5-2 just bumps this up a notch.

And in case anyone is wondering why I believe so strongly that a 5-2 can work, it's because I started work on a 5-2 this afternoon. The defensive backfield is standard but the front 7 has a few small wrinkles to make this formation my own. I've made 3 plays so far (2 of the slant variety), with one zone blitz that's proven surprisingly effective against the run as well as the pass.

Phate, I'd love to tell you that I'll be unveiling this formation soon, but I actually have another new defensive formation waiting in the winds that I may release first (and as usual I don't really know when I'll get to either one for sure). I'll see about that Christmas present thing Wink

In any case, the future for Monstrous Madden Defense looks pretty bright.
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Phate



Joined: 16 Dec 2003
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Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome.

I'll see if I can come up with some more 5-2 plays for you to screw around with.
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Arkaein



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I had forgotton it had been this long since this topic was posted to.

Anyways, Phate, i thought you'd like to know that I have a 5-2 defense pretty well underway. I only have a few plays so far, but I think I have two good enough to start with.

It will have to wait until (hopefully very early) January though as I predicted earlier, because before I post my 5-2 I have some thing really cool to unveil. It's a radical type of 3-4 that blends some ideas from a base 3-4, a 5-2, and my own Edge Nickel formation. Look out for my Peregrine 3-4 to be posted very soon, probably Monday night. Not only is it quite effective against certain offenses, it uses a technique I'll best most people have never seen on a football field before. Wink
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Phate



Joined: 16 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love you.

Will you marry me?
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kingfeej



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol. I cant wait to see this either 'kaein
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